Kirby Plugin Installer

Yes, that’s probably the perfect way to go in this case. The votes does not look that good so maybe it will not end up as a plugin after all. We will see. :slight_smile:

Version 0.1 released!

github.com/jenstornell/kirby-plugin-installer

I’ve been looking at the votes and most of you did not like this feature at all. I still wanted it myself, because I think it will help me keeping my plugins up to date.

Features

  • Install, update, delete and deactivate plugins.
  • Everything is done with the widget.
  • Visit plugin Github repository link.
  • It will warn if the file does not match the folder, or the plugin type is wrong.
  • Possible to restrict permission to only super admin users.

Requirements

Inspired by @1n3JgKl9pQ6cUMrW - Kirby - Plugins Widget

Don’t forget to include a warning that deleting/deactivating certain types of plugins might break the Panel and/or your site, because suddenly fields or classes or whatever are missing.

Honestly, I think that such a plugin gives you the false impression that you can simply remove stuff without any implications. Or does it warn you when you try to remove stuff?

In the readme or in the plugin? Maybe both.

I have an idea to put a warning in the widget before running a delete, update and deactivate action. That would prevent accidental clicks as well.

Both!

Yes, I think that’s important.


(And don’t blame Kirby when you suddenly end up with a bloated WP clone site with thousands of plugins that you can’t control anymore :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:, just saying)

It seems like you are not one of the yes-voters. :wink: But you don’t even use the Panel, do you?

I think that such a plugin gives you the false impression that you can simply remove stuff without any implications.

Except for the warnings, it’s also possible to only allow some special users to have access to the widget. Hopefully these super admin users know what they are doing when they are deleting plugins. I don’t think the resposibility should fall back on the installer plugin. People need to be responsible for their own actions as well. :slight_smile:

suddenly end up with a bloated WP clone site with thousands of plugins that you can’t control anymore

What does this even mean? There are not even 1000 Kirby plugins in total yet, only about 300. I have 4 of the installed in the demo gif. WordPress is not the only CMS with a plugin installer. Grav has that as well and I don’t think it’s anything wrong with that. It’s only a different way to install the plugins. If I would have liked WordPress more, I would not have been here.

Hey Jens, I was just kidding, no offense meant :peace: :pray:

I admit to that.

I do. For testing :wink:

Absolutely!

1 Like

Well User permissions wont help here. Most of the clients still want to have admin account somewhere on the side and it happens all the time. Lot of smarter ones (those who know about dangers of getting wp site hacked) specificaly check if their site is updated so you can get to constant neverending circle of keeping sites updated.

But i think the problem is philosophical - i dont believe updating of dependencies belong to panel. But thats my opinion and well unless something like that was to appear in core… you just wanted opinions :slight_smile:

Well User permissions wont help here.

To some extend I still believe it will.

The plugin doesn’t use the new permission feature, at least not roles. It just checks if a user is allowed to use the widget by an option. That way it’s independent.

This plugin is clearly not for “dummies” and that’s why I’ve added a warning in the readme:

WARNING: By using actions to change your plugins, you risk to break your site or the Panel. To restrict the widget to a username, see options.

c::set('plugin.installer.username', 'jenstornell');

or

c::set('plugin.installer.username', ['jenstornell', 'krisa']);

i dont believe updating of dependencies belong to panel

And many in this forum agree with you (over 50%). That will not stop me this time. I want to try it out. :slight_smile:

I was curious what this actually did so I tried to install it. The widget did appear but was telling me “page not found”.

But I agree with the general concern about “releasing” this.

Given the person installing the plugin would need to provide the repository information and most plugins usually requiring some element of work to be done on the source files anyway, I struggle to see the how this provides any value for the person installing it. Yet I can see how this could be the source of major problems if anyone did use it without knowing exactly what they were doing.

You are obviously someone that does know what they are doing :sunglasses:

But is it wise to call it a “release” and listing it on a plugins list (however unofficial) when you are playing the idea “to try it out”?

Maybe describing them as alpha and in development would be more accurate.

There is so that could go wrong for someone who installs it. Especially with the type person searching for a “plugin installer” solution may not know Kirby at the level you are assuming they are.

I speak from experience, as I was building my first Kirby site was around the time you were releasing Revisions 2.5 to an appreciative community.

After installing I discovered the way it stored revisions in folders was not compatible with some of the core Kirby concepts. We spoke about it in an issue and you acknowledged it was a system wide problem and not a small managable tweak you could require the user to make.

I don’t mean to dismiss all the excellent work you do for the community, it really is appreciated. I respect the way open source works, and never expect or demand anything from those that contribute to it.

But I was surprised how such a major issue hadn’t been spotted before as it makes the plugin unusable unless the person installing is prepared to make significant changes to Kirby’s core files (please correct me if I am wrong).

I had a couple of other experiences with plugins (from other developers). They started off in a blaze of glory with frequent updates and fixes galore, then end up stagnant and broken.

Now whilst I love Kirby Core, I am ultra cautious in my approach to its plugins, in a way I am not when it comes to WordPress. I don’t use many plugins on WordPress but the handful I use, I know I can rely on.

:sleeping:

Ooops, this was a bit longer than I anticipated. I want to reiterate that I don’t mean any offence and I appreciate all the effort that goes into the software and the community.

Thanks :cake:

2 Likes

The widget did appear but was telling me “page not found”.

Well, that’s not good. Hard to say why without more information.

this could be the source of major problems if anyone did use it without knowing exactly what they were doing.

That’s why I added this as the first sentence of the repo:

WARNING: By using actions to change your plugins, you risk to break your site or the Panel. To restrict the widget to a username, see options.

Revisions 2.5
I was surprised how such a major issue hadn’t been spotted before as it makes the plugin unusable unless the person installing is prepared to make significant changes to Kirby’s core files.

I agree with you and because I see no quick fix to the problem I’ve stopped developing this plugin until I figure it out, or something will change in the core.

You was surpriced about your findings? So was I when you told me. No one else seems to have seen all the problems with it and it’s still my most popular plugin so far. It even got noticed in Kosmos Episode 3 | Kirby CMS as “Very powerful but simple!”.

I don’t mean any offence

It felt a bit offence actually, but I already got so much offence on this plugin anyway that one more would not make a big difference.

Anyway, this will probably not be my most loved plugin and if you don’t like the idea of it, don’t install it. :slight_smile:

I think that’s more to cover your :peach: than to inform the user that if they were looking for an easy way to install plugins, then this really is not it :slight_smile:

True, but the people looking for a solution like this are doing so because they have trouble installing plugins.

They read “Install, update, delete and deactivate plugins, Everything is done with the widget.” and think that this is the all in one solution they have been looking for.

Which is what I really don’t understand.

How can something be so popular when using it affects all queries used in templates and snippets, fundamental of the CMS it is meant to work with? I agree on paper it looks great, but I do question if people (inc Kosmos) were praising the idea without actually installing it.

I think that’s more to cover your :peach:

My intension was not to cover my :peach: (which you can read in the posts above). I have a disclaimer for that.

About Kirby Revisions, it’s another topic and I really don’t have any answers to your questions about it.

And right you are! Of course, this is true for any plugin of any system. Since development of Kirby plugins is relatively new, it’s hard to tell which ones will make it into a bright future. Since WP has been around a lot longer, so plugins had more time to ripen and maybe you have more experience with them. There are a couple of Kirby plugins that have been around for quite a while and which are under active development, so that I personally think I can use them in my projects. Time will tell.

I think I keep repeating myself when I say that, but I think it is important: everyone should really check for themselves if a plugin is actively developed, how long it has been around, try to evaluate the code quality, of course test it thoroughly before using it in production etc. etc. The more plugins you install, the higher the risk that your site will stop working after the next Kirby update.

With a couple hundred plugins in the plugins repo, we as the Kirby team can’t possibly test all these plugins. And when we mention a plugin, this is not meant as a rating or recommendation to use them, but to recognize the effort and the ideas of the developers.

And after all, even a plugin that is not perfect (or even a deprecated one), may serve as a basis for others to build their own stuff on. (And a plugin like the Revisions plugin might even work for some people depending on their setup or requirements. Personally, I’m looking forward to the next version of AutoGit with Git-based revisions that don’t clutter the content folder.)

1 Like

Thanks for your reply. What you say about plugins is all very true and the comments I have been making were not meant to sound so critical. But I did want to raise my concern that not everyone is going to as thorough as you might hope. When releasing a plugin to the public a certain level of responsibility should be taken as you never know who is going to end up installing it. If the plugin is intended to be used by people who already know about XY that is fine. But for those that don’t, to read little note saying:

“This plugin is intended to be used by people experienced in XY who understand the potential risks. Those without previous experience might find this a bit of a struggle. You can learn more about XY here”

would be very helpful :slight_smile:

Hmm, I can’t say I agree with that, well I agree it might be true. I might be old fashioned but I would like to think when a company selects four plugins from the hundreds they see and writes about them in a newsletter. I always assume they have experienced them enough to share their thoughts.

My mind is a bit blown learning that :scream:

I would suggest adding “these plugins are not meant as a rating or recommendation by us” under the article, but that wouldn’t look very good at all :disappointed:

But please, next time you are putting together Kosmos, remember that it is read by people who signed up to it because they trust who it is from and value what they to say. :slight_smile:

@digisam: I see your point, and am sorry to disappoint you. In an ideal world, it would be great to be able to give recommendations. In reality, this is impossible for a couple of reasons.

The most important one being that - even if I could test a plugin thoroughly in any kind of environment (which I can’t possibly do) before including it in the newsletter - a plugin can change any day. Something that works today may not work tomorrow.

Also, unfortunately I have no means whatsoever to look into the future to see if developers will continue to develop their plugin or abandon it after the first release. After all, many people develop something for their own use in a project and are kind enough to share it with the world, which is awesome. But if you use it, make sure you do not depend on it to work with the next Kirby release or make sure that you understand enough to be able to update it yourself or hire someone to do it for you.

Plus, Kirby Kosmos is a newsletter, not a test magazine, and as such, we mention stuff that is new and exciting in the Kirby world and which is interesting or might be worth checking out. Of course, I’m cautious about what I include (and if I’m not convinced something is a good idea, I wouldn’t include it), but as I said above, there is no guarantee or even recommendation.

3 Likes

That’s cool, I understand that plugins move on and you can’t extensively test. It a plugin broke the next day, I wouldn’t hold the person who recommended it responsible :slight_smile:

Maybe I misunderstood what you initially meant by:

To me it sounded like the plugins are not being installed at all. I apologise if this is not the case.

If someone recommended a film to me, it is not unreasonable to assume it is because they had seen it :slight_smile:

I don’t expect a review or a report, as just a few minutes trying anything out (plugins, clothes, music, food, games) is all it takes to decide if you like something or not.

Oh well. I won’t go on about it

I was curious what this actually did so I tried to install it. The widget did appear but was telling me “page not found”.

try to create a “about” page and the widget will probably work

Finally got Kirby CLI working, installed your plugin, used it to install another one. Pluginception! All worked as advertised. I really like this functionality, and I can see it being a great tool for clients, assuming you’d trust your client to not hose their site :slight_smile:

2 Likes

14 posts were split to a new topic: Why you shouldn’t trust your clients to install plugins and why it’s worth to learn Kirby